Overview

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, John Jantsch interviews Sara Nay, CEO of Duct Tape Marketing and author of “Unchained.” Drawing on over 15 years of experience in every agency role—from intern to CEO—Sara explains why the traditional marketing agency model is broken for both clients and agencies. She introduces the “anti-agency” approach: a practical, strategy-first, AI-enabled model designed to help small businesses own their marketing instead of renting it. The discussion covers timeless principles, the new role of the fractional CMO, how to leverage AI for impact (not just efficiency), and the steps any business can take to reclaim control and clarity.

About the Guest

Sara Nay is the CEO of Duct Tape Marketing and author of “Unchained.” With two decades of hands-on experience, Sara is a leading voice in strategy-first marketing systems for small businesses. She has helped hundreds of entrepreneurs and agencies design sustainable, scalable growth through a blend of foundational principles and forward-thinking technology. Sara is a sought-after speaker and advocate for empowering business owners to take back ownership of their marketing.

Actionable Insights

• The traditional agency model struggles with client demands, scope creep, profitability, and talent retention—especially as AI transforms execution.
• The “anti-agency” model empowers small businesses to stop renting their marketing and start owning it, with strategy and leadership at the center.
• Timeless marketing principles (ideal client, deep messaging, strategy before tactics) are more important than ever in the AI era.
• Rushing into AI tools without strategy amplifies chaos and inconsistency—start with business and marketing goals, then select and train the right tools.
• Fractional CMOs offer small businesses affordable, high-level leadership, managing strategy, budget, and metrics while leveraging lean teams and AI systems.
• Owning your marketing brings control, clarity, and the ability to scale—CEOs should focus on their “zone of genius” and let marketing leaders orchestrate execution.
• Agencies must shift from execution services to strategic leadership and AI-empowered team enablement to remain relevant.
• Every business can start reclaiming ownership by auditing team structure, clarifying partnerships, and aligning technology to strategy.
• AI should be used to elevate human talent, not replace it—future-proof your team and business by identifying high-impact skills and integrating AI support.

Great Moments (with Timestamps)

• 01:06 – Why the Traditional Agency Model is Broken
  Sara shares her experience across agency roles and the pain points that inspired “Unchained.”
• 03:02 – Defining the Anti-Agency Model
  How AI and strategy are turning the old agency/client relationship upside down.
• 04:59 – Timeless Marketing Principles in the Age of AI
  Why ideal client profiles and deep messaging still matter most.
• 07:07 – The Dangers of Jumping Into AI Without Strategy
  Sara explains how “amplified chaos” is the real risk for small businesses.
• 08:55 – The New Org Chart: Fractional CMOs and AI-Powered Teams
  How small businesses can afford leadership and execution at scale.
• 11:05 – From Renting to Owning Your Marketing
  The mindset and structural shifts required for true business growth and clarity.
• 14:26 – How Agencies Must Evolve to Stay Relevant
  Why leadership, strategy, and AI team enablement are the future of agency services.
• 16:06 – Practical Steps for Taking Ownership This Week
  Sara’s advice for businesses ready to move from chaos to control.
• 18:08 – Elevating Your Team With AI
  How to future-proof your people and business by blending skills and technology.

Pulled Quotes

“Stop renting your marketing and start owning it. With the right strategy, small businesses can take back control and scale with confidence.”
— Sara Nay

“AI should be used to elevate your team—not replace them. Future-proof your business by blending technology with high-impact human skills.”
— Sara Nay